Dinas Dinorwig
Dinas Dinorwig and Cororion
Ffynnon Cegin Arthur at Dinas Dinorwig
Cororion and Dinas Dinorwig
Not long ago I found a way to identify the lost ancient fortress of Caer Dathal - an important place, as the Welsh claimed Arthur's father Uther was related to the people there - with Dinas Emrys. My argument for that can be read here:
While the case I made seemed fairly convincing (or, at least, intriguing!), I found myself disturbed by some of the premises. Firstly, there was the possibility that Dathal was not the Irish name Dathal, but instead a Welsh corruption of Irish Tuathal (whose cognate in Welsh is Tudwal). Secondly, we would have to assume a) that the Irish connected Dathal with Irish daith, 'swift', and b) that they then substituted Latin Celeritas/Celert/Gelert , a name we find at Beddgelert, the parish in which is found Dinas Emrys. The more I looked at all that, the less I liked it. Eventually, I lost my infatuation with the idea and, ultimately, became dissatisfied with it. Had I been too clever for my own good? I knew I owed it to myself and others to take another look at the problem.
Where to start? Why, at the beginning, of course. I returned to the pages of the MABINOGION, more specifically to the tale of 'Math Son of Mathonwy'. It is there that we learn the most about the whereabouts of Caer Dathal.
And, sure enough, I had missed something. In the story of Gwydion's theft of the magical swine of Dyfed, we are told that he herded them to Creuwryon in Arllechwedd, and thence to Caer Dathal. Creuwryon is modern Cororion. This identification was made by Williams and has been approved of since by several Welsh place-name authorities, including Dr. Andrew Breeze:
When I went to look at Cororion on the map, and zoomed in, I was more than a bit surprised. For this place was on the Afon Cegin, a stream whose headwaters start at Dinas Dinorwig, the Town of the Fort of the Ordovices, and Ffynnon Cegin Arthur, the 'Spring of Arthur's Kitchen.'
More notably, the hillfort was directly between Cororion and Segontium/Caernarfon on the Afon Seiont.
Creuwyron/Cororion was nowhere near Dinas Emrys! But it was very close to the pre-Roman oppidum of the Ordovices, and the Segontium, which the Romans had built on the Menai Strait to replace the tribal center.
Before I go any further, it is important to take a look at Dinorwig as 'Fort of the Ordovices', as this etymology has been questioned. We may begin with a statement made by the great Melville Richards.
From https://www.persee.fr/doc/ecelt_0373-1928_1972_num_13_1_1512 (p. 376-7):
Richards does have in his archives the following attestation for Dinorwig in 1618:
DINORWIG Dinorthveg 1618 WYNNSTAY WYNNSTAY MSS 86/31
In looking at maps, the earliest form I could find (at https://maps.nls.uk/view/104188168) is DINAS ORUEG (1662-1665). However, the Melville Richards Archive
(http://www.e-gymraeg.co.uk/enwaulleoedd/amr/cronfa_en.aspx) has -orwig forms from 1564-1578.
Dr. Simon Rodway of the University of Wales remarked (personal communication):
"I wouldn’t take that [Richard's objection to the Ordovices derivation] to be fatal, considering there are *no* attestations prior to the 14c. His later statement on the form (which I cited) suggests that he did not entirely discount it. The loss of dd in a consonant cluster is not that surprising.
In Enwau Tir a Gwlad, p. 77, he says ‘it would be dangerous to build too much on this’. But such a statement does not constitute a ‘shooting down’ of the Ordovices etymology, in my opinion.
R. Geraint Gruffydd also accepted it in 1996, and Patrick Sims-Williams (albeit cautiously) in 2000. They may all be following Rivet and Smith in Place-names of Roman Britain (1979).
I guess that Richards assumes that the 17c. form in th is due to popular etymology, which could be right, but I also think that it might have a basis in reality."
John Koch, the eminent Celticist, also accepts Dinorwig as the Fort of the Ordovices (in CELTIC CULTURE: A HISTORICAL ENCYCLOPEDIA:
There are, however, traces of Ordovician survival. The inscription
from Penbryn, Ceredigion (reading CORBALENGI
IACIT ORDOVS ‘of Corbalengos, the Ordovix lies
here’) shows that the tribal name was still a meaningful
identifier in the 5th century, in this case by a man
whose name appears to be Irish (Macalister, Corpus
Inscriptionum Insularum Celticarum no. 354 = Nash-
Williams, Early Christian Monuments of Wales no. 126;
see Jackson, LHEB 619). Dinorwig, north of Llanberis
in Snowdonia, means ‘hillfort of the Ordovices’, and
Rhyd Orddwy near Rhyl means ‘ford of the Ordovix’.
Cantref Orddwyf as an old alternative name for
Meirionnydd suggests that the early medieval kingdoms
of the Cuneddan foundation legend—such as
Meirionnydd ‘land of Meirion’ < Latin Mari\nus—never
completely obliterated the stubborn Iron Age tribe.
The name is Celtic and means ‘sledge-hammerfighters’;
cf. Old Irish ordd, Breton orz, Welsh (g)ordd
‘sledge-hammer’, and for the second element, Old Irish
fichid ‘fights’.
Of course, it goes without saying that the abandoned Iron Age hillfort of Dinorwig cannot have been Caer Dathal. While archaeology has been brought to bear on the site, it is highly unlikely we would see any reoccupation of the fort in the sub-Roman period. Instead, we can presume that Segontium continued in one form or the other. And, indeed, Caernarfon has been proposed before as a candidate for Caer Dathal (although see below). It is interesting that when we list all the Arfon and surrounding sites mentioned in 'Math son of Mathonwy', Caer Seiont is conspicuously absent.
I will now return to John Koch's account of the Ordovices. The most important part of his treatment of the subject has been highlighted.
Ordovices ’Ord(o)ouikej were an ancient tribe
of what is now northern and central Wales (Cymru),
and their lands possibly extended beyond the modern
border into Shropshire (swydd Amwythig) and
northern Herefordshire (swydd Henffordd). In the
opening decades of the Roman period in Britain
they offered prolonged resistance, first in the period
ad 45×51 as supporters of Carat\cos, the displaced
leader of the Catuvellauni (Tacitus, Annales 12).
In the period ad 58/9 they fought Suetonius Paulinus
prior to his conquest of Anglesey (Môn) in ad 60.
Shortly before Agricola’s arrival in ad 78, the
Ordovices nearly annihilated an auxiliary cavalry unit
stationed in their country. This was the first challenge
of his governorship. Tacitus (Agricola 18) explains that
the Ordovices kept to the highlands and would not
engage the Romans on the plains—presumably taking
strategic advantage of the terrain of Snowdonia
(Eryri)—but Agricola did come to grips with their
fighting force and destroyed it in 78/9, after which
he had to retake Anglesey. Eventually, the tribe was
pacified. Ptolemy lists two towns in their country:
Mediolanon (which has the same name as the more
famous centre in Cisalpine Gaul, and was possibly
the fort at Caersßs, Powys, or Whitchurch in Shropshire)
and Branogenion. But it is doubtful whether
their country ever became a Romanized civitas,
accepting settled urban life, as did most of the
Romano-British tribes. The strongly fortified nativestyle
hillfort of Tre’r Ceiri—built around a massive
cairn of the Early Bronze Age and strategically viewing
Lleyn, Anglesey, and Snowdonia—was occupied
through most of the Roman period, showing an incomplete
Romanization of this area. The accounts
of Cunedda and his son Ceretic imply that Irish
settlers occupied lands between the rivers Dee
(Dyfrdwy) and Teifi in the late Roman and/or earliest
post-Roman periods, a scenario which finds some
support in a scattering of ogam inscribed stones and
Irish place-names in the region. However, we do not
know whether these Irish groups were settled within
a continuing Ordovician tribal structure—having perhaps
supplied a new dynasty for the tribe, as had
occurred in Dyfed—or whether the Ordovices had
already been supplanted by Irish groups before
Gwynedd and Ceredigion were founded.
Of course, Koch is not here privy to my discovery that Cunedda was himself Irish (= Cuinedha Mac Cuilinn of the Ciannachta of Drumanagh) and not a Briton from extreme northern Manau Gododdin. We can allow for Dathal being either Irish Dathal or Tuathal. It is tempting to opt for the latter, as we have a legendary Irish record for Tuathal Techtmar, an Irish king born and raised in Britain by a British princess. Techtmar was supposedly the founder of Mide (cf. the Brega of the Ciannachta in Mide) and has been tentatively associated with Drumanagh. For a good, balanced piece on this Tuathal, see
Can we, therefore, propose that Caer Dathal is another name for Caernarfon?
No, I don't think so - tempting though that is.
We are still missing another part of the puzzle. Math has as his virgin footholder Goewin, daughter of Pebin. The name Pebin is found at Dol Bebin in Nantlle, very close to the Caer Engan hillfort.
Dol Bebin with Caer Engan hillfort to the west
(and some of the Coed Madoc sites)
This is more than just a coincidence. For if we allow Dathal to be from Irish Tuathal, but then accept Tuathal itself as an Irish substitution for Welsh Tudwal, Caer Dathal magically appears from the mists of time. [Conversely, a W. Tudwal could have later been substituted for an original Irish Tuathal, which the Welsh had pronounced Dathal/Tathal.]
As it happens, there was a local St. Tudwall whose name is preserved in Gwynedd:
"TUDWAL, ST. There is a group of two islands off the south coast of the Llŷn peninsula called St.Tudwal's Isles. On the eastern island, the larger of the two, there was formerly a small chapel, under Llanengan, dedicated to St.Tudwal (PW 86). It is mentioned in the Taxatio of 1291, p.291, as “Eccl'ia Prions de Enys Tudwal”. Ffynnon Dudwal formerly existed on Penrhyn, in the parish of Llanengan (LBS IV.274). Tudwal may have given his name to Tudweiliog, a parish in Llŷn on the opposite side of the peninsula, although the dedication is to St.Cwyfen. Compare Rice Rees, Welsh Saints, p.134." [P.C. Bartrum A CLASSICAL WELSH DICTIONARY]
The Engan (W. Einion) of Llanengan is exactly the same name as we find in Caer Engan. But could he be the same man? The Llanengan Einion is none other than -
EINION FRENIN ab OWAIN DANWYN. (b. circa 470)
The saint of Llanengan in Llŷn (PW 86). He was the son of Owain Danwyn according to
Bonedd y Saint (§9 in EWGT p.56). His commemoration is on February 9 (LBS I.70). See further LBS
II.422-4. [Bartrum]
What I am suggesting is simple: the Tudwall/Tuathal/Dathal of Llanengan at some point also gave his name to the hillfort on the Llyfni. Thus Caer Dathal is Caer Engan next to Dol Bebin.
Uther, then, would have relatives at Caer Engan. In my book THE BEAR KING, I argue for Uther being the great Cunedda - not a Briton from Manau Gododdin in the far north, but Cuinedha Mac Cuilinn, an attested Dark Age Irish chieftain from Drumanagh just across the Irish Sea from Gwynedd. Einion and Owain were, in fact, descendents of Cunedda.
I had long ago demonstrated the Madog son of Uther was the Madog whose place-names are found in Nantlle, and the Eliwlad belonged there as well (the Coed Madoc in Nantlle was relocated to Cutmadoc in Cornwall, and Eliwlad the death-eagle in an oak was copied from the story of the dead Lleu in the oak tree at Nantlle). According to the Stanzas of the Graves, the god Mabon, servant of Uther Pendragon in the PA GUR, was buried in Nantlle. Finding Uther's Caer Dathal so close to Nantlle is a happy result of my research.
And, yes, there is good reason to believe (as I have written about extensively before; see, for example, https://mistshadows.blogspot.com/2022/06/notes-on-cornish-place-name-tintagel.html) that Geoffrey of Monmouth's Tintagel is a relocation of Caer Dathal.
BRYNGWYDION
Now, while we are not told about such a place in "Math Son of Mathonwy", Welsh tradition does know of a Caer Wydion, named for Gwydion, nephew of Math.
"Caer Wydion is attested as a Welsh name for the Milky
Way, and there are traditions of a son of Gwydion named
Huan ‘sun’ (on which, see Blodeuwedd); compare with
this the similarity of Lleu and Welsh lleuad ‘moon’."
- John Koch CELTIC CULTURE, p. 867
Could it be that in terms of mythical landscape, Caer Wydion is to be identified with Bryngwydion just a little north of the Afon Llyfni and the Craig-Y-Dinas promontory fort?
Probably, as Bryngwydion has its own ancient enclosure (see http://www.heneb.co.uk/hlc/caernarfon-nantllethemes.html), designated a smaller 'ring-fort.' This placed would have been thought of as where Gwydion lived.
A NOTE ON CAER ARIANRHOD
Caer Arianrhod is another important locator in 'Math Son of Mathonwy.' It is within both walking and boating distance of Caer Dathal (Caer Engan) and Dinas Dinlle, the 'Town of the Fort of Lleu.'
Traditionally, Caer Arianrhod has been identified with a coastal rock between Dinas Dinlle and Maen Dylan, the 'Stone of Dylan.' Dylan was the god Lleu's twin brother, another son of Arianrhod.
I think, however, the real Caer Arianrhod was an entirely different place.
The Bryn Arien mentioned as lying on the way to Caer Arianrhod along the sea from Dinas Dinlle has been identified with a hill near Brynaerau (see Sir Ifor Williams, Pedeir Keinc y Mabinogi , Cardiff, Second Edition, 1951, pp. 278-9). Cefn Cludno or Cefn Clun Tyno was thought by Sir Ifor Williams to be in Capel Uchaf and others have since agreed (see 150 Jahre "Mabinogion" - deutsch-walisische Kulturbeziehungen by Bernhard Maier and Stefan Zimmer, Walter de Gruyter, 2015). There is a Coed Tyno just a little north of Capel Uchaf.
If Gwydion and Lleu really did take horses from Coed Tyno, then the most obvious fort close by is that of Foel.
However, there is a Bryngwydion, 'Hill of Gwydion', just a little north of the Craig-Y-Dinas promontory fort. And as Dylan's Stone is near the mouth of the Afon Llyfni, the 'port' of Arianrhod must be at the mouth of the river. Note also the Lleuer (= W. lleuar, 'light, brightness'?; see https://www.academia.edu/35985785/Some_Cornish_place_names_with_lyw, citing Enwau lleoedd sir Gaernarfon by John Lloyd-Jones, Gwasg Prifysgol Cymru, 1928, for lleu-erw: lleu 'goleu') place-names at Craig-Y-Dinas, which may well hearken back to the god Lleu. The Llyfni flows through Lleu's Nantlle, and Dolbebin in Nantlle was named for the father of Math's virgin footholder, Goewin.
Craig-Y-Dinas
Either of these forts could be Caer Arianrhod. The deciding factor might be that when Gwydion and Lleu take horses from Coed Tyno, they are not said to have crossed or forded the Llyfni. To have gone to Brynaerau, thence to Coed Tyno and on to Craig-Y-Dinas would mean they were doubling back on their course needlessly. The mouth of the Llyfni could serve just as well as the 'port' of the Foel hillfort. Finally, the two Lleuer places are south of the Llyfni, so more accessible from Foel. Craig-Y-Dinas is on the north side of the river. The hill of Foel is over 220 meters high, making it much more imposing in the landscape than Craig-Y-Dinas.
There is another reason for rejecting Craig-Y-Dinas as Caer Arianrhod - and it is a big one. When Gwydion goes to the stronghold of Pennardd to follow the sow that will lead him to Lleu in Nantlle, we are told that this place lies downstream from Dyffyrn Nantlle or the Valley of Nantlle. This can only be Craig-Y-Dinas on the Afon Llyfni which is, in fact, downstream from Nantlle.
In another episode we are told that Math musters an army and takes it to Pennardd. During the night, Gwydion and his nephew Gilfaethwy return to Caer Dathal. At dawn the following day they return to Pennardd. The context plainly suggests that Caer Dathal and Pennardd are close to each other, and this fits Craig-Y-Dinas and Caer Engan.
For these reasons, I think we must favor Foel as Caer Arianrhod.
Rachel Browich and others have favored Aran- for the first component of Arianrhod's name. If such scholars are correct, it might be that Aranrot was originally a name for the hill of Foel.
The following discussion of the meaning of her name is from the TRIADS (p. 284):
The standard line of reasoning for the etymology of Aran is set forth by Dr. Richard Coates in https://www.snsbi.org.uk/Nomina_articles/Nomina_35_Coates.pdf.
However, John Koch (in CELTIC CULTURE: A HISTORICAL ENCYCOLPEDIA) is surely right in settling for Arianrhod as the correct spelling of the name:
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