Proximity of Samlesbury to Ribchester
I had long since obtained agreement from the majority of place-name experts on my proposed derivation of the Samlesbury, Lancashire place-name from the Welsh personal name Sawyl. But, I had neglected to take my case to at least one of the world's most renowned Celtic language scholars. To redress that oversight, I decided to send the following query to Prof. Dr. Peter Schrijver of Utrecht University. This man had been very generous in the past when it came to helping me with linguistics problems I encountered during my Arthurian research.
"Hi, Peter.
Please find attached an entry for a place-name found in Victor Watt's THE CAMBRIDGE DICTIONARY OF ENGLISH PLACE-NAMES.
My question to you is whether you think the first element of this place-name could come from the Welsh (or Cumbric) form of the name Sawyl, at some point in its development from the Latin form of the Biblical Samuel.
Yes, Victor Watts disagrees. But without meaning to bias you from the outset, place-name experts Alan James, Richard Coates and Andrew Breeze agree with me that some form of Samuel through the Welsh would best account for this place-name. I have also suggested that there may be good reasons embedded in Welsh tradition to support the idea. Sawyl Benisel of the North is said to descend from Pabo Post Prydain. Pabo is here being used as an eponym for the Papcastle Roman fort in Cumbria, which is on Derwent Water. Samlesbury and its related sites are on the Darwen in Lancashire, an identically named river. Sawyl's son Asa/Asaph is a well known saint in nearby NE Wales, while his son San[c]ton has a church in extreme southern Cumbria. All of the other relatives of Sawyl can be easily (and firmly) traced to Cumbria and immediately adjacent territories. The Irish sources give Sawyl an Irish princess as wife, one hailing from the Dal Fiatach along the coast in NE Ireland. Indications, therefore, are that Sawu ruled from what had been the Roman period tribal region of the Setantii (or Segantii).
What I haven't done thus far is ask a Welsh/Celtic specialist how we might have ended up with the early forms for Samlesbury, assuming for the sake of argument that the name Samuel is involved. I'm hoping you can please fill in that gap.
Yes, I understand all too well that you may disagree with my proposed etymology for Samlesbury, and that's fine. As always with these kinds of questions, I have my own doubts. We are dealing with a name in English territory, one that may have been subjected to influence from English, Anglo-Norman and even Norse.
Thank you very much for your help with the issue."
His response:
"That seems quite possible to me. The forms with Sc-, Sh-, Sch- are later and point to a secondary Anglo-Saxonized interpretation. An ancient (i.e. earliest medieval) British or British Latin spelling <Samuel> or <Samel-> would be expected, or a later (say 700-1000 CE) Welsh spelling <Samuil, Samuel>. Hard to say exactly when the name became Sawyl. Old Welsh was still [Savuil], but a spelling <sauuil> may well have been avoided because of double <uu>. Approximately by the 11th century (so Middle Welsh) the -v- may well have been lost. But this is very rough chronology."
As a follow-up, I wanted to make sure and ask Schrijver what he thought of yet another idea for the etymology of Samlesbury. Via personal communication with Professor John Insley of Heidelberg, who is responsible for the Lancashire portion of the EPNS, I had the following on a proposed derivation for the place-name:
Schrijver's opinion of that idea?
"It’s a concatenation of unsupported assumptions: diminutive -ula instead of the -ila of Soemel, Seomel, ablaut of the root, arbitrary etymology. Pretty desperate. Maybe he’s unaware of the fact that if he would like to hang on to the connection with OE so:m ‘agreement’ its Celtic counterpart *sa:m- (> Ir. sám ‘peace’) is much closer to the vocalism of Samlesbury…"
That the best etymology for Samlesbury remains 'Sawyl's fort' is vitally important to my Arthurian theory, for I have settled on this particular Dark Age Samuel of the Segantii (not Setantii; see https://mistshadows.blogspot.com/2023/02/segantii-not-setantii-deciding-on.html) as the father of the legendary Arthur. As to how I arrived at this conclusion, my readers are welcome to peruse the many articles here on my blog site. Better yet, please do consider purchasing my book THE BATTLE-LEADER OF RIBCHESTER, available from Amazon in ebook, paperback and hardcover formats.
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